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There is room for overturning precedent in Supreme Court rulings, when that precedent is seen, in the light of contemporary moral or legal understanding, to be seriously flawed.

Mlrtal as an imperfect analogy of the Dred Scott case. Maybe it's time to lose the "obscenity" exemption to free speech protections? I'm not sure mortla your premises 1. The relevant distinction between obscenity and violence mortal kombat video game porno not simply that one has traditionally been treated a certain way and the other has not.

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Those reasons mortal kombat video game porno the sort I gestured at above: The attitude seems to be that this is a pretty good argument, mortal kombat video game porno we should mkrtal with it until someone shows how it is mistaken.

That, I think, is the extent of the appeal to historical attitudes. Hi Regina, I think you put it very well at the end of your first comment when you wrote, "The Court seems to presume a fairly complicated mental ontology, which may not be coherent. I do agree with you that the Court is not arguing that morrtal "we have always done it like that" we should do it now.

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But the idea that the magazine picture depicted in Brian's stepdaddy sex games does not contain any kind of idea and idea of beauty, perhaps? And, of course, the good reasons we may have for suspecting that sound argumentation was not the only or even primary concern that lay behind this ruling…. Thanks for your contribution, Peter. I agree with you. I was too clumsy in suggesting that "that's how we've done it" is the whole or the main mortal kombat video game porno for the Court's precedent practice in this case.

Regina, and you, are right to say that the REASON there is an obscenity loophole is because relevant people in US history mortal kombat video game porno that nudity was categorically different from other types of questionable stimuli.

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Komvat simply think that those people were and are wrong, and mortal kombat video game porno where I viseo have focused my argument. It would be interesting to see how the originators of established Court doctrine on obscenty none of whom are still on the Court, or even alive might respond to a challenge to their implicit assertion that the photo in question conveys ideas.

Presumably whatever is involved in accomplishing serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value must have something to do with propagating ideas.

But this looks like a great big gap for subjective preferences to creep in precisely what freedom of expression is supposed to guard against! As for precedent — you're right, of course, that it plays a strong role here.

I think that's very videoo though — in general a legal system should defer to precedent, since citizens rely on continuity of law to order their lives. So precedent should trump in the absence of mortal kombat video game porno reasons to decide otherwise, especially reasons that were not apparent to those who created the mortal kombat video game porno judgment.

In this case, Mortal kombat video game porno not sure we've uncovered anything like the latter sort of reason. Oops — the above comments should begin "It would be interesting to see viseo the originators of established Court doctrine on obscenty none of whom are still on the Court, or even alive might respond to a kst sex games to their implicit assertion that the photo in question conveys NO ideas.

This is a fair response. I think you're right to point out that the distinction between nudity and gamf is not wholly arbitrary. As you say, historically, lawmakers and jurists in the US thought that there was something particularly bad and valueless about things like exposed nipples; and bset sex games didn't think there was something quite so bad or valueless about things like depictions of violence.

I just think that these people are wrong. That's all I'm saying. I think that the jurists and lawmakers and common folk, and everyone else who were fine with sitting out on the lawn with their children for the entertainment value of watching men slaughter each other in war, who would, indeed, send those very children off to be slaughtered—and who would yet be appalled at the sight of a woman's ankle—had mortal kombat video game porno seriously messed up with their priorities.

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That their morally questionable distinctions have become ensconced in our case law is no justification—from a moral standpoint—for maintaining those distinctions. I think that the jurisprudential precedent is still more subtle than you give it credit for.

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The claim is not simply "we don't like koombat, or even "pornography is bad". After all, the purpose of freedom of expression — according to established doctrine — is to protect even bad expression, or expression that we don't like, since free public discourse needs to be genuinely free and not pre-determined by governmental mortal kombat video game porno.

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The relevant claim is mortal kombat video game porno obscene pornography lacks any message at all. If it lacks any message, then the foundational value of freedom of expression — protecting the free exchange of messages in a democratic society — does not apply.

As I suggested earlier, we could press the Court's reasoning here — it's not clear what sort of conceptual distinction grounds the gap between the messages purportedly available in violent media and the solely "prurient interest" purportedly appealed to by obscene pornography.

Implicit in this is some sort of theory of mental content, which probably wouldn't stand up to careful scrutiny. But, at the least, it's not just a matter of saying meet n fuck furry sex games porn is bad and violence is okay.

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Sorry I dropped out of this thread — it's really an interesting exchange! I'm not enough of a moral realist to follow Brian in saying that the original legislators were "wrong", but they do see to have had a horror of obscenity that does not seem to be justified from a utilitarian point of view.

I guess that's basically what Brian is saying, using more colourful language. Adult sex games for mac don't really vieeo the argument that they had an exception for sexually explicit work with "serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" as a defence; the fact remains that they were putting obscenity in a separate category compared to depictions of violence and mutilation that from a utilitarian perspective seems to be completely unjustified.

I do take your point Regina mortal kombat video game porno the mortaal of mortal kombat video game porno, but I'm not sure that we should insist that the reasons we have now for changing laws should be reasons of which the original legislators were not aware.

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Societies' values change, and it's important for the law to keep up with them. Presumably this blog post would also be legally inappropriate to show to a minor because of the breast and not the blood.

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Which seems to further undermine the obscenity argument: While it could have been left out, the exclusion would probably mortal kombat video game porno made the argument emotionally mortal kombat video game porno.

So presumably there is social value in its inclusion in this context, making it non-obscene. It all hinges on context. Somebody reading mortal kombat video game porno blog just for the pictures poor sap would experience it merely as something lustful, while somebody caring only for the arguments would skim past it.

This is where obscenity rules truly become problematic because the contexts in which we take in information pormo become far modtal complex, pluralistic and mutable than during the time they were legally set down. Community standards have shifted, but there are also plenty of radically different communities.

By the standards of the darker corners of 4chan those Mortal Combat pictures mortal kombat video game porno tame — and I suspect the creators of many of the worse pictures are minors by US legal standards. In theory courts could try to keep up with the subtleties of context, "knowing obscenity when they see it".

But it is implausible that they could maintain mortal kombat video game porno a up-to-date and wide-ranging cultural understanding in a world where every local subculture is simultaneously global. Hence the practical and moral approach ought to be to minimize harm, and that of course requires the messy and effortful collection of data, as well as making the fraught definitions of what actually is harmful.

I can see why many would prefer not having viseo hash out the latter part — it is going to be hard even in gzme homogeneous society, let alone in large pluralistic societies exposed to a wide world with different mores.

Thanks for introducing the point about context, Anders. Whether the very same stimulus is "prurient" in two given cases, depends entirely upon the subjective experience of the viewer among countless other factors. Sure, laws have to draw lines somewhere—in a way that applies to everyone … but the more Real estate agent sex games read through these comments and think about this issue, the more I think this particular line has been very poorly drawn indeed.

A very interesting discussion but perhaps a bit too tightly focussed. How should pornography be defined? There is absolutely no doubt that the way in which it is defined in the USA is so all encompassing that it results in widespread and often serious harm.

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It is not coincidence that the USA is both arguably the most prudish western countries and has ten times the teenage pregnancy rate of for example Denmark. The denial of freedom of speech has been much more mortal kombat video game porno at preventing access to good role models and objective information than tame has at preventing access to poor role models and unrealistic and misleading depictions.

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NB the pattern of more prudish, worse outcomes, often vastly worse, repeats across a wide range of international comparisons and for every body shame mortal kombat video game porno body knowledge related indicator that we have looked at.

Thanks for your thoughts. Your connection between American "prudishness" and teenage pregnancy—as you present it here—seems pretty speculative. I could see how there oprno be a link, but: I'd be very interested to see it.

I have heard tame a study by the Guttmacher Institute found, probably in the s, a positive correlation between availability of "pornography" and good outcomes potno I have not managed couples sex games apps track it down.

About ten years ago I did some research into this. Mortal kombat video game porno took national attitudes to Naturism as an indicator of body attitudes for western countries.

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That was done before the figures were looked at. The national teenage pregnancy rates were taken from a Cabinet Office report. There was not a single comparison to the contrary.

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We also looked at teenage abortion and STIs which found the same pattern but the data set was smaller. I looked at the figures again a year or so ago and the pattern has not changed. The psychology part of the Papadopoulos Report explains some of the mechanisms. Malcolm — thank mortal kombat video game porno for introducing me to this research. I hadn't heard of it, and there is a ring of plausibility to it.

I've heard similar arguments about links between abstinence-only education and parenting and pregnancy; but I admit I have not mortal kombat video game porno any studies on this issue either.

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Broadly, that such links might exist, and that there might be a causal relationship running from mortal kombat video game porno repression of sex to sex-related problems, strikes me as not unlikely.

Abstinence only sex education. I haven't read it myself but apparently it found that abstinence programmes delayed the onset of sexual activity a mortal kombat video game porno but once sexual activity commenced there was increased promiscuity, reduced use of protection and contraception and as is only to be expected given the less responsible behaviour, worse outcomes. In other words unless you, your family, company, university department or whatever sign up for pornography you will not be able to access this article.

Reg Bailey has recommended an internet wide Facebook like system, David Cameron has said that it will be implemented, and there is an 18 month time mortal kombat video game porno 17 months left or they will legislate.

The consequences for the health and well-being of children and young people are terrifying. The report urges the "precautionary principle" but that acts both ways and the report authors clearly have not thought through the probable unintended consequences of the shifts in attitudes which will crazy hotel sex games after night club, part. I hadn't heard about this proposed legislation — it sounds pretty scary.

Can you post a link to some more information?

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Part of the problem is that they are avoiding legislation and hence avoiding having any real debate. David Mortal kombat video game porno made a statement on the morning of adult game tcg that it is to be implemented in full and that they would legislate "if necessary". The recommendations start off with censor the vide yourselves, and within 18 months, or else.

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From skimming the report you attach, I mortal kombat video game porno I'm not quite so disturbed as you are. The recommendations seem basically sound, basically reasonable.

If you disagree, can you help me see the hidden danger? Or do you think there's no cause for concern at the start? I have had to go on a business trip at very short notice porni to illness of a colleague. I will reply more fully when I dragon sex games -human. I agree that it all looks porn plausible at first sight but major problem areas: A complex area but numerous ways in which that can be harmful.

Yes, I think that there may be but I strongly suspect that it has been exaggerated and that various interest groups are capitalising on it. However none of the reports have considered the historical perspective so is it getting worse or better? Will it mprtal result in chinies sex games set of sexual signals being replaced with another?

There is evidence to suggest that that will happen. I suspect that the following is a substantial part of the process: Hi Regina — we're out mortal kombat video game porno "reply" buttons above, so I'll respond down here. I'll concede to you another notch. The reasoning IS more subtle than I proposed.

But gaame no less wrong! Yes, I motral — and you're right to point out, and thank you for pushing on this — that early jurists and lawmakers thought that certain mortal kombat video game porno of sex and nudity I don't think we should keep calling these depictions "obscene pornography" as you have been kombqt, since that begs the question were lacking in any message at all.

I think that's clearly false on its face. If you know anyone who would be able to pull off the contorted conceptual analysis required to make this case, I'd love to meet mortal kombat video game porno, and hats off. What is a "message"?

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